Summoning Interview (1999)
The following interview was conducted with Silenius of the Austrian Tolkien / Black metal bands Summoning by Frederic Caure in 1999 for the Belgian Tolkien Society. Unfortunately the interview was never published. Thank you to Frederic for scanning the transcript and sending it to us. Given the time / place, there was some slight grammatical issues that I have fixed. See the Photos on bottom for the original transcript.
1. How do you think it is possible that a large amount of metal fans are interested in fantasy and Tolkien particularly? In the 80's we regularly saw album covers with dragons and stuff like that from bands like Manowar... Is there a certain history behind this, how did this grow, you think?
S: Fantasy topics together with occult or horror literature have always been a leading part of metal music since the beginning of the 70’s. Just think of bands like Hawkwind, Uriah Heep or Black Sabbath and later on in the 80’s just think of bands like Iron Maiden, Cirith Ungol or Venom and tons more. I think the reason of this attraction lies at one side on this outlaw and rebellion image and lifestyle and on the other side on this fascination of non conformity to the mainstream culture, and the rising of a kind of trash art and culture of a rising younger and more rebellious generation in contrary to the Hippy era.
2. Do you think that metal fans use fantasy (and Tolkien) as a form of escapism? Or are the reasons different? Is it related with the fact that metal maybe also could be a form of escapism or music in general, and that both musically and lyrically accumulate?
S: Metal music always has this kind of heroic touch within the band presence (just think of typical metal posing and stage acting). And as metal music (especially in the 80tis) had no.real political or cultural image most of the bands tried to transport fantasy images within their music, just as you said as a kind of escapism to the boring and adapted society, to give the listener freedom to take out everyday life's frustrations. All in all metal music is just a medium to take off, like films, books or gameboys; not more not less.
3. You are not the only black/dark/doommetalband making music about Middle-earth.. Do you know other bands who do like you, and what do you think about them? Do you think they bring the same essence and message as you do? Do you think they got the atmosphere right (check for example not that good in my personal opinion). And what is your opinion about more known black metal bands who are, as they say, also Tolkien inspired bands, like Isengard and Burzum?
S: Of course many other bands also use topics from Tolkien but I think except maybe "Blind Guardian" no band but us built the whole conception during all these years in their music. I don't want to judge about the quality of other bands. We just transport our music in such a way we think it is best to build up musical landscapes to Tolkien's fictional world. We don't know the band you mentioned and fore sure there are many bad bands coming along, but I think for example Blind Guardian are doing a good job in their way. Also Burzum I think has great atmospheres within the music. Although he tried very hard to deny his influences of Tolkien I think they are obvious.
4. Do you think that you are for a part 'responsible' for a Tolkien "boom' in the metalworld? And do you think you attempted a few people by this to read LotR? Do you think you reached a goal by this?
S: No I don't think so, because we are still too much connected to the underground so that our influential status is not that big to move the masses. But I am quite sure that some people who like our music and who don't know Tolkien literature get interested in what we sing and try to get in contact with the world our musical concept is dealing all the time. But it is not our goal to force people to read Tolkien books. People shall make their own decisions.
5. Maybe you know this or not, but Tolkien-admiratiors (fans) can be split up in two groups: Tolkienists and Ardalogues. Tolkienists are the people who see Tolkien as a great author, and made fabulous books like LotR, and The Hobbit. The Ardalo pues see Tolkien as no more than a translator of ancient manuscripts, and focus more on the content of his books? (this is just a brief description) How do you feel about this? Do you feel related by any of these 2 groups? What is your opinion?
S: To make one thing clear: we are no Tolkien maniacs who think 24 hours a day just of Tolkien and make everyday studies of every single word of his books. We just have realised the power and the majesty of his works and try our best to make musical translations and landscapes of this fantasy world, but that's al. So I don't know exactly what I should say to these categorisations of Tolkien fans. I think everyone should be satisfied with what he or she likes.
6. Isn't it strange that metal bands make songs about Middle-earth? Because, hobbits, elves and dwarves don't seem to be the biggest preoccupation of longhaired leather jacket biker metal dudes....
S: All in all I already explained the metal fascination on fantasy topics. If you mentioned biker metal dudes it is of course a contrast. On the one side the fractionation of modern techniques (the bike for example), and on the other side the fascination of non technical fantasy (the fantasy airbrush motive on the tank for example). But all in all it is obvious that people always want to flee from reality and if ancient fantasy worlds can help people to find their inner freedom it is nothing to say against it.
7. In my personal opinion, there are 4 sides of what could attract a metallan into Tolkien:
the heroic side
the evil/dark side
the escapist / lother world side
the primitive/tribal side
What is your opinion about each and all of them? Would you like to add one and/or do you disagree with some?
S: I think you are completely right in what you said. So we have nothing to add.
8. Why do some black/doom/death/darkmetalbands make songs about Orcish battlefields, Sauron and Nazgul? Especially this evil dark side. This is a quite recent evolution o/ the last 10 years I think. Before, inspiration of the darker kind was found in crime and satanism. Do you see a further evolution in this?
S: Orcs and the dark side of this world are just one part of the fascination to make people sing about. Other bands sing about demons and devils; I think there is not too much difference within. It just fits the aggressive music style many metal bands have chosen. That is just a natural thing
9. Do you think that fantasy/Tolkien and metal are a European topic, and American black metal bands find more inspiration in Satanism? Until today I have found no Tolkien inspired USA black metal band, but in Europe, there are 'plenty of them…
S: You are right in what you said, but I think the reason for this is not too much the cultural background. It is simply a question of lifestyle and musical preferences. Maybe the reason for this is that America is a much more Christian orientated country, so that Satanism has a much more rebellious character there. And for sure another reason is the more easy way of living, and that produces a more easy way of music.
10. Do you think that Summoning and other Tolkien inspired bands can be related to the Pagan metal and Viking metal stream. Is this not the same matter except that they were religions 2000 years ago?
S: The difference Pagan / Viking and Tolkien orientated metal is that the world of Tolkien is a fictional history of our earth. But the love for ancient culture and ancient heroism is for sure the same. So I really believe that the fans of both musical types could also be the same.
11. What's your opinion about pagan literature like Edda? Do they interest you as well? Can you compare it to fantasy? Tolkien himself was very inspired by it, and also made his own interpretation on Beowulf.
S: European mythology for sure is very similar to fictive fantasy literature, just with a more historic and cultural background. The goal is the same: To bring people a kind of escapism to everyday life and to bring people closer to the laws of nature.
12. LotR handles the fight from good against evil. 'Till what point do you agree with Tolkien in his story? Tolkien was also a deep Catholic person. And what is your opinion about this as a black metal band, both about this “good against evil” story, and Tolkien's Catholicism?
S: The good-against-evil story is the basic motive in every fantasy and horror literature. But although Tolkien was a very Catholic person the end of his middle earth history is an open one. So one thing I really like about him is that he doesn't try to integrate his personal religious way of thinking into his books, but on the contrary always tries to make a balance between the power of good and evil. In contrast to reality he just makes the borders between good and evil more clear for everyone to see.
13. Any last comments?
S: Thank you very much for this outstanding interview. We have been happy not to get the typical "what do you like to eat" - questions
